John Elizabeth Stintzi (My Volcano) On Writing A Doomscroll Novel And Finding Humanity In The Absurd
Episode Description
John Elizabeth Stintzi is the recipient of the 2019 RBC Bronwen Wallace Award and the inaugural Sator New Works Award. Their writing has appeared in Ploughshares, The Malahat Review, Kenyon Review, Best Canadian Poetry, and others. They are the author of the novels My Volcano (2022) and Vanishing Monuments, as well as the poetry collection Junebat.
With the release of their new novel My Volcano JES presents us with a twisting tale of apocalypse and shared calamity, as gigantic volcanoes sprout up across the world. The novel follows a series of characters as they navigate their lives, and the new reality growing in front of them.
We talked with JES about how they attempted to write the weirdest novel anyone has ever read; the foggy boundary between fiction and reality; and the hardships involved in trying to market experimental work to the world.
Hosted by Phillip Russell and Ben Thorp
Episode Notes
You can visit JES’s website here.
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Phil 0:00
John Elizabeth Stintzi is a non binary and trans writer, educator and visual artist who grew up on a cattle farm in Northwestern Ontario. Their work has been awarded the 2019 RBC brown Wallace award for emerging writers and the Malahat review's 2019 long poem prize. Their writing has appeared in Ploughshares, Kenyon review fiddlehead, the Malahat review, best Canadian poetry, and many more. Jess is the author of the novels, my volcano, and vanishing monuments as well as the poetry collection. Jun bat. They live with their wife in the United States. Thanks for coming on. Yes, I know. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we, you know, we always like to start off the podcast was kind of asking how people are doing, especially during the turbulent times, that we're in right now. So like, how's it going?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 0:52
Oh, you know, turbulent? Yeah, I mean, it's been a, it's, you know, in all sincerity, it's been kind of a rough semester. And it's been rough, you know, early 2022. So, and I've got a book that comes out in a few days. I don't know, it's, it's a very strange time. For me, it's always I think, odd to sort of put things out in the world. And also, it's all I think, bringing back the memory and the sort of like trauma of my last two books coming out in like, April and May of 2020. And we're still had a pandemic, and my third book is coming out. So I don't know, did a lot of feelings.
Ben 1:28
Does the process of release get less stressful? Do you feel more familiar with it now? Or does it stay about the same?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 1:36
I'm not actually, I don't think it's actually stressful. It's just like, emotionally weird. I mean, it is stressful in some way. But it feels like so disconnected for me also, I don't know, I just feels like it's, it's like now I get to see how much people do or don't care about this thing that I that I made. I think it's stressful because of that, but it's not. I don't think it's as stressful for me in the way that it's stressful for other people, maybe, I don't know, I've got a lot of it just, I've just feel so weird when it comes to these things. And it might just be the pandemic as well. So it's like, I think this time, hopefully, I will be able to sort of have the little moments that make it feel real in a way that I didn't get to do that. Like, like, I'll have my first virtual event for any book in like, a couple weeks. I mean, not virtual, like in person event, like, that's wild to me, the third book finally gets a real event. Yeah,
Phil 2:29
that's interesting. I mean, I can only speak for like, you know, I've published the creative nonfiction essays and stuff online, I've never, you know, had like, an end print publication. And I'm curious. You know, from my own perspective, when I like publish something online, there's that level of like, it feels like you're throwing it out into the void. And like something like, you know, depending on if you get responses or not, it can it can be hard to parse, you know, my relationship to the work in those settings. And I'm curious, is that kind of the vibe that you feel with kind of releasing books during the pandemic? Or? Or if not, maybe, can you speak a little bit more in terms of how it feels a little bit different? Or maybe bigger?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 3:10
Yeah, I mean, it definitely, I think it feels somewhat similar. In the sense of like, I mean, I've published many things in many magazines. And you'd be surprised the names of places that have gone out to nothing like I mean, I've published in very good magazines, and not heard a peep from basically anybody about them. And I've published random things online and gotten nice responses. So it's like, it's very much a mixed bag, you never know what you're gonna get. Sometimes the Void is not where you think it is. But I think with books, it's a little bit different. I think, obviously, the stakes are higher, but it's also I think, it's like weirdly comforting to know that at least, people read books, in a way that people don't necessarily always like, go and read, like literary magazines and stuff, which, you know, no shade on them. But you know, I think it's, it's something that is a little bit more natural for someone to like, pick up and be like, Okay, this is the thing that someone actually like, sits and reads. So if they pick it up, you know, usually they feel more compelled to read it, maybe? I don't know. But it is, I don't think that like throwing it into the void, necessarily guess what, exactly. I think that's sort of always part of the process, especially as like a literary writer, like, you kind of just have to know that for the most part, most people aren't going to read your stuff. And that's just, you know, I and you can't write for that, like, you can't write for the idea that you're gonna get read by a bunch of people, otherwise you'll lose your mind. So that's thankfully, that's not why I do it. But
Ben 4:35
yeah, I How do you think about, you know, motivation there and finding a way to be like, Okay, this is something that's valuable. This is what I'm gonna spend my time on, even if it is, and sometimes it is where it's like, two people read maybe one person comments and is like, hey, I really, really liked that.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 4:53
Yeah, I mean, it's, you just have to make yourself the first the only reader that really matters. I mean, that's like the end of the day. Like you write for yourself, and if other people like it, that's great. And if other people like it, you'll be validated and that sort of like, oh, other people are like me. And that's kind of nice, too. But yeah, I think that's what you and I think that's also how you write stuff that's really interesting, as well as if you don't think about the market or don't think about, like what other people want you to do. And just think about, like, what, like, makes you excited about this project and, like, lean into that as much as possible, which is really what, which is definitely what I did with this recent book with my volcano. I mean, there was like one friend, like, I have one friend, I'm like, you will fucking love this book. And aside from that, like, it's whatever I mean, like, I'll have written a book that I liked, and it was, it was, it was a fun ride. So I think you just have to, like, have conviction for your own beliefs when it comes to writing otherwise, you will be chasing something that doesn't exist, which is the sort of like, big readership, literary fame, which is all luck anyways, for the most part, or very good marketing, which is mostly money.
Phil 6:05
Well, no, I love that. I think that's a really interesting insight, especially thinking about my volcano as a novel, you know, this kind of sprawling, epic that's, like kind of surrealist and absurd, and has so many kind of characters and moving parts. I'm curious, maybe if you could take us back to like, the genesis of this novel, and maybe what you were thinking or what you were attempting to do with this piece?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 6:35
Yeah, I mean, that's the problem with me and Genesis of my books is that I'm usually I've been working on this in some way or another probably for a long time. And like, I just have a lot of different projects. And they always, like, I write like, the first little part, and then like, I go do something else for a couple of years. And then I come back, and I sort of like, oh, this, like, this idea has sort of, like grown into this has a sort of possibility. I think that at its core, what brought me the most to my volcano was a sort of like, I'm mean, I knew right away, like the earliest part of it was this sort of like short piece that was just all these weird little moments that were sort of set in this world that has this volcano in it for some reason. But that wasn't the that wasn't even the point. Like the point was the the little volcanoes and all of these people's lives. And that was always I think the impetus for my volcano is like, How can I write a book that is about all this sort of, like collective eruption, but it's also about all of these small, little parts, these little these little volcanoes and all of our lives. That was really what it came down to. And then a lot of it was also like, it was kind of like the book that I cheated on my other books with, like, it was like, the place that I went when I was like, really frustrated. And like, I just needed to, like write something that was kind of like fun and weird. And just like, you know, basically, I would just, like, have a weird idea and be like, I'm gonna write this and we'll see if it fits. And most of it fit somehow I was able to find a way to make a book or most of the weird ideas fit, which is, I think, a marvel.
Ben 8:11
I wanted to get you to talk about like, how do you describe this novel to other people? Because I I've been, you know, Phil, and I were talking about, like, oral, I'll tell I'll try to talk to with my girlfriend about it. And I can get through like the first section. I'm like, Okay, so there's this volcano, and it's showing up suddenly, in New York. And then beyond that, I'm like, I don't know where to go from here. And like, you know, Phil and I were talking about, I was just talking about the scene with a girl who's trapped inside the insect and goes on a date with a guy and then they, like, start like gearing up to have sex. And then she like, bursts out the back of the insect. And they're both like, what are you doing get out of this apartment? And I was like, how are they? So like, how do you how do you have these conversations with people about like, okay, so this is what the book is about?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 8:52
Yeah, I mean, I think I can only really talk about it in terms of like thematically and be like, I this is the thing that happens like a volcano, the size of Mount Fuji approximately grows out of New York in three weeks, and then weird shit happens everywhere around the world, like following that. And it's sort of like, that's as much as I can really say, because yeah, once you get into the weeds, you'd be like, Alright, there's a person who wakes up inside of a giant insect, there's a Mexican boy goes back 500 years past, there's a, there's a weird, like, clot, like, like, Borg sort of, like collective growing in Mongolia. It's like all this weird stuff that once you get into the details, I think it's so and I think that's part of what I wanted it to do as well like, in the same way that like I wanted it to be kind of like reflective of like our reality and like all of the weird things that are just seem like it seems insane to me that we're like, having this conversation and like, you know, Russia's invading Ukraine and like all of these, there's a pandemic that nobody wants to say is still going on and like all these things are All, you know, existing at the same time, which I think is sort of what the book was trying to do and a sort of tongue in cheek kind of way.
Ben 10:08
Yeah, I think you captured that feeling I felt in some ways that it was like it was almost like a bomb to like read this after. Aggressively as I you know, I do and I know a lot of people do just like scrolling through Twitter, and uh, you just like, you see these popping things just like, here's the most insane thing you've ever thought of. And it's a real thing that is happening in the world right now. There's a, there's a meme. And there's a meme and someone's making fun of it. And someone beneath in the comments is like you're a monster for making this joke. And it's just like this constant stream of like, different perspectives crashing into one another. And I think the the novel does a great job of capturing that and also capturing I mean, even in that initial part, the volcano shows up in New York, it's a crazy thing, but almost instantly, it becomes normalized. And it's like, oh, well, I mean, it's, it's the volcano in New York, what are you going to do? And so I think in some ways, you know, it felt like such a piece that is speaking to this moment where it's like, trying to find feeling kind of rudderless trying to find your, you know, like solid ground amidst everything being chaos around you. And it just like it works really well. I think when I was thinking about it in terms of, oh, I go from Twitter to like readings, paging through my volcano, and it feels like it captures that just like perfectly.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 11:25
Yeah, it is kind of like a novelization of doom scrolling. To love him. Well, I've said that several times. And I always have to say be like, but it's more enjoyable than doing this calling. It imitates doing scrolling. But it's not like pathetic fallacy. And the point where it's like too much like Doom scrolling like it's yeah. Don't don't expect it to be, you know, insufferable, like actual Doom scrolling. Like, there's no point to it. But yeah, it does have like these sort of interjections of things that sort of, like, disturb you. Like, there's commercials and things like that, that sort of, and also like bulletins of like, real violence that happened in 2016, all the stuff that's sort of like peppers and sort of bounces back and forth. And also someone wakes up inside of a giant bug. And, you know, someone turns into a human case, you know, there's like, just all this weird stuff that, you know, clashes with itself, which is sort of like when you're scrolling through Twitter and seeing all these dumb jokes and, you know, posts about, you know, horrible things that have happened.
Ben 12:19
Can you can you kind of talk about, I mean, one of the things that struck me and we don't have to, I guess it's hard, it's a book that is hard to talk about, in specific this was like, we were kind of panicking about, like, how to ask you questions about because we were like, you know, just the setup you have to do to get to the question is, can be difficult. But one of the things that I think I'll just set up, because I think it touches so well on kind of what you're doing is, you're the one character ash, who finds that they have a separate version of themselves, or a duplicate copy who is living in a city on the other side of the world. And so you start from this premise, where it's like, it's weird, it's strange. But then, you know, what starts happening is they start calling themselves because they're lonely, and they need someone to talk to. And so I think one of the things that I felt you do very well is start with, you know, what are sometimes very absurd premises, but then find like, a really strong emotional through line. Can you maybe talk about how you were thinking about okay, hey, cool. So this person is in a bug? How do I find how do I find a way to make this resonant?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 13:24
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the, the challenge. I think what I've cut from the book, which wasn't much, I think it was the stuff that didn't find a way to go beyond. It's sort of, like, satirical premise. Like, that was something that like, Yeah, I mean, the challenge of like, yeah, it's a funny idea to sort of turn Kafka on on his head and be like, instead of waking up as a giant insect, you wake up inside of dynatech. So that was sort of what I was playing with, with Galena, that character. But yeah, I mean, you have to sort of like, I mean, you always have to just sort of know that, like, your, your premise will only go so far. And like the humanity is why people read this book. So you know, making galena this sort of closeted queer character and like being closeted within this kind of insect and the kind of freedom that sort of perspective gives her is like, really interesting. So it was his opportunity to sort of like, you, I always had to sort of, I think, take the premise and think, Okay, how can I push beyond the premise in a way that makes it interesting and ash? I mean, Ash is a very interesting character, like, his journey is so strange, and it's sort of like, parallel. And it's sort of like, you know, gives us this way to sort of have this weird link between these sort of parallel universes that sort of start to emerge as you read the novel. So yeah, I don't know exactly like beyond like, just an understanding of like, the reason people are going to read this stuff is for the humanity, not just for like the funny the funny, funny premise that I have. So I always kind of have to figure out like how I can route that in something that feels real and relatable, because I think that is also just what makes this sort have writing so fun, like the sort of absurdity of the metaphors that are so like, easy for someone to like latch on to. We have like a similar experience. Like I think that's what makes it so enjoyable to write this sort of like, kind of fabulist surreal work. Yeah.
Phil 15:19
Yeah, that's interesting one, one thing that I was thinking about, every time I picked up the novel was just the form of it. And, you know, Ben and I are both working on kind of, I always joke with my partner that I'm working on a longer work with a novel. And it's a really kind of eye opening process, I think compared to like writing, like short fiction or an essay. In a conversation you had recently with Prince George County Memorial Library, you talked a lot about form and kind of my words, not not yours, the fluidity of how you approach it between like poetry versus prose versus your visual art. And yeah, I love this idea that you talked about, of how with your poetry, sometimes, the form or like, the shape of the piece can feel a bit ephemeral or elusive to you like, this kind of happens, and you have to get it out where it says fiction, it's much more of like a deliberate process and like a mindset that you're, you're in. Yeah, for something like my volcano that has so many characters as wondering, like, formally, like how you kind of went about creating it, you said it took, like, a number of years, I'm wondering, like, were you kind of working on individual characters stories, and you had to figure out how they placed in or,
John Elizabeth Stintzi 16:44
I mean, it was kind of fluid. And actually, like, you know, working on it several years doesn't mean that I was actively working on this. For several years, I worked on a lot of different things I started bounced around. So this is probably actually the quickest book that I've ever written in terms of my actual like, time in the seat, which people will be. I always, I've been recently joking that people are gonna, like, eventually, like, just murder me because I think this is the easiest book I've ever written. Which, considering how strange it is, and how structurally sophisticated are sort of like difficult like to fathom how its structured, I think it's funny. But I think it's just it was very intuitive for me to write like that. But yeah, it was kind of a mixture of going in and sort of like, like, a lot of it did, I think come like as I went and I think I learned early on. Years ago, when I was reading vanishing monuments. The best way I could write a book is to write the part that was the most exciting to me at the time. And to not necessarily think about like, Okay, I need to write the next part of the story. Like, I'll just write it was my volcano, I mean, that you could write anything, and it could be something that's included. So that was, I think, some of the challenge, but yeah, it was mostly just like, there was a lot of that. And then occasionally, I'd be like, Okay, I want this character to exist. I think galena story, the waking up inside the insect story was one that I did kind of go through kind of, I was like, Alright, I'm gonna write this weird metamorphosis story. And I just sort of like wrote it, and then broke it into pieces as I as I wrote it, and then sort of spread it out. So there were stories that I did do that like Ash, like surprising to everyone who ever told us to Ash was like the last character that I ever wrote, like, I wrote, like, a month before we went on submission, I added ash. And it's like, it's insane to think that that because of how integral he is to connecting so many of the storylines, but like, yeah, like his story was very much like beginning to end and the white trans right, I think was also like, kind of beginning to end but a lot of it was kind of like as I went, I just sort of like, Alright, I gotta go back to what the hell's Dunkin do and now what the hell's this person doing now? What's johnboll up to like, all these you know, just kind of as every day I, you know, try to think about, like, what's an exciting thing for me to write and I think that's also where the kind of parallel universe sort of stuff starts to happen. Like where suddenly it seems like we're kind of in several different realities at once was, like, also just like playing with like, but what if this happened is that then then I have to sort of, you know, so it was a lot of like, there was a lot of outlining there was a lot of like, I have a spreadsheet that shows like how much the volcano grew every day. Like I had, like an equation that I made to make sure that it was like, I could figure out to the, to the exact number, like how absurdly fast this thing was growing like all these things, like, there were all sorts of like, I have like a character map that's like, massive and like has every single person like how they're connected to everybody else. Like, yeah, like there was a lot of that sort of thing that was involved, for sure. But a lot of it was I think, in general, like I write kind of hybrid like I don't try to do too much outlining I just kind of go write what's interesting to me if I get lost, I sort of can do a little mini outline to sort of like, get my get me back on track and figuring out like, where I'm going and yeah, it's it's a very fluid process, but it is a lot more I'm thinking a lot more about structure in terms of the novels, as I said, like, poetry is weird poetry will come out as poetry, I can't, I feel like I have less control over that. But with fiction, I always feel like I want to say something with the, the way that the book is put together, like vanishing monuments has this sort of interesting structure, not not like, my volcano, but like, you know, even with my volcano, like, sort of the way that it starts to get like, shifted and shook up like more and more as you go is kind of, you know, me trying to say something more broadly about the this work as it as it goes, by the way that it's sort of like juxtaposing these things much more aggressively as you go. So, yeah, it's definitely something I'm more conscious about when it comes to the books.
Ben 20:46
I wanted it because just because you brought up vanishing monuments, I was wondering if you could kind of talk about the ways that they are or might be in conversation with one another. I was listening to an interview that you did with it looks like Toronto Star talking about, you know, memory. And the way that identity is interpersonal was one of the things that you were talking about, which I really loved. And one of the things that I was thinking about, as I was reading through this was the way that reality feels like it's interpersonal in this, that in a lot of ways, you're thinking about the ways that our reality is often kind of shifting and shaky, based on who's telling the story about you know, where we are in the world. And so, yeah, I'm just wondering if you can kind of maybe bounce off and talk to us about the way those two things, those two books are in conversation.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 21:38
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really, probably key way that they're sort of conversational, like vanishing monuments is much more about the self. And like identity being this thing is kind of like in conversation with someone. So this, it's about this character whose mother is suffering from dementia, and is sort of like, lost the ability to speak, and they go back to, you know, their hometown for the first time, like 30 years just to see her. And it's sort of about like, confronting this person who like, can't even see you as who you are anymore. Or, like, there's this, there's this, and you can't see them for who they used to be, like, there's a real sense of like, like, almost like a social death, like not an actual death, but like, this person, this version of me is gone within them. And the version of them is no longer this person that I'm looking at. And there's, you know, this sort of idea that, you know, who we are, is sort of built on, you know, our, how we're being perceived by other people, you know, that's sort of something that I think is just inherently true about the world. And I think that this book is definitely like, less about identity in terms of that, but it is definitely like reality as being the sort of like conversation and like, as a sort of, like agreement between people. And it's not this sort of, like, I'm not someone who believes that reality is this very, like, static, empirical thing. Like, I think that that's, like, an absurd stance to take about, like, Oh, our, you know, our experiences are all like inherently like the same, like I think they will I live in a very different world than so many different people. Like, I think that we're all sort of living in our own little realities. And I think there are obviously ways that they tie together, and I think that's what vanishing my volcanoes doing with the sort of like, amount of stories and the way that they do touch one another. Like, I think it is trying to sort of like there is a line that connects us there is a sort of collectivity. But I think they're both very much thinking about the ways in which, you know, I guess just things are socially constructed in a way like, I think that is like, a through line between those two bucks. For sure. Yeah, I think those those sort of big thematic similarities are probably the most, you know, sophisticated, or the best ways that they're connected for sure.
Phil 23:57
One, one kind of question that I've been grappling with a lot through reading the novel is this, this kind of tension, I think, that can exist or like this friction that can exist, and a novel like Marvel, my volcano, which, you know, does have a lot of like surrealist elements juxtaposed against, you know, real world instances of police brutality, or white supremacy or any other forms of violence against marginalized folks. I'm curious, like, what that experience was like for you, incorporating those kinds of things into the novel, and, you know, maybe why was it important to include those those kinds of things?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 24:47
Yeah, I mean, I think that most like on its surface, the thing that I I'm glad that it does is that it shakes people up and doesn't like I don't I never really wanted this book to feel like Somebody you get like, necessarily fully immersed in like I wanted it to kind of like shake you up a little. And I think also like, you know, their see reality makes the reality that much more real feeling. And I think that there's there's all sorts of interesting tensions there. With those specific sections, I kind of hesitate to speak to like intentionality about them, if only because I think that there's such an interesting litmus test for the reader like moments for the reader to reflect on like, oh, how do I feel about these, these like real things that are suddenly like in this novel that set during like, the summer of 2016. But these are like real things that happened in 2016. I think that the readers response to that. And like, the reflections on their sort of response to that is something I think is one of the more interesting things about this book. So I don't really want to like say, like what I was intending with, including those, but I think like, I definitely wanted them to be sort of like jostling. And I wanted this, I wanted to also assert, in some ways that that my volcano is not as fictional as you want to think that it is, like I wanted it to feel like yeah, the absurdity of this but it but it doesn't feel any less real unnecessarily. Like it's just as it's just as like, it's maybe on paper sounds insane. But I wanted it to still feel like this. Like, I think I almost at some point was like, should I call it my volcano a memoir? And I'm like, I should probably shouldn't do that. So I don't know, I think that that's something I was definitely trying to play with, like I very much as was sort of, like, one of the ways to sort of like shake up the reader and sort of like, make the reader sort of, like, have to think about stuff that's outside of the book as well.
Ben 26:46
Can you? You know, I love that idea. As far as like a litmus test, I think for me, like, Yes, I, you know, I got to those sections. And I was like, Whoa, you know, this is this is kind of making me think about, you know, the reality of these kinds of these things are happening all around us. This, these disasters are real. And again, thinking back to the like, the scrolling through Twitter analogy of like, it is you'll be like, here's a joke, here's a joke. Here's someone I'm like, you know, a goofy video. And then it'll be like, Oh, here's a video of someone getting murdered. And you're like, what? And so I, I felt that a lot. I wonder, like, I also I think, in some ways felt uncomfortable sometimes when those names showed up. And I'm wondering if you can talk about like, how do you think about how do you put those names in the novel? And I don't know, like, is there a is there a degree of, you know, how do you be respectful of you know, those people and those names? Not juxtaposed next to kind of a fictional piece, how do you, you know, still feel like you're you're, I feel like there's, there's this thing that happens, where it's like, we slogan eyes, these names. And so yeah, that can happen, too. And so how do you walk that line for yourself? Where it's like, Yes, this is going to be a part of my, you know, my novel, but I still want it to have this impact without kind of taking the gravity away from the reality of that. Does that make sense?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 28:11
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's a difficult question, I suppose. Yeah. I mean, it's, I guess, it's also like, it depends on like, what your opinion of fiction is, like, how do you think do you think fiction is inherently silly or inherently unserious? Like, yeah, I don't know. Like, if you think that fiction is somehow less serious than I can see, having those next to, you know, these real events might make those seem less serious. Like, I can definitely understand that. You know, and I think like, the end of the day, like, unfortunately, like, as much as I, like, I could have not included those names. But like, that doesn't mean that those people weren't, like, experience didn't have these experiences and like weren't, like, you know, this is at the end of the day. Like, it's that's just like me putting some like real news into into a book like, yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting question. But yeah, I think it depends. Like, I don't think that fiction is any less serious than real life or like, I don't think that I don't think that I read it with the sense that like, Oh, this is all just made up in some way. So yeah, I don't know. And I think maybe it's also speaking a little bit to that. Kind of, like, how weird it is that these names just become names? I don't know, like, because that's what I mean, unfortunately, like, all these things happen, and they do sort of become like symbols more than people, which is sad. I mean, not that all the people that I listed in that book are people that people have even heard of, but you know, there are definitely some that that are.
Ben 29:39
Yeah, yeah. And if I remembering rightly, I think the the one place that it does it kind of bubbles up beyond just the list of names is when Ash is having that conversation with themselves where they're where they're like, you know, talking about the poles, they're talking about the pole shooting, and they're talking about their ages and they're like, do you do you think about this, and it's Like, yeah, think about this all the time.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 30:02
Yeah, yeah, no, it's definitely a few moments. And like near the end of the book, there's some sort of, I think there's a little bit of a hint of that in one of the endings of the book. And Mikayla, at some point talks about I think, Antoine Trumper, maybe I think it was. Yeah, no, I think there's there there are moments where they, it does sort of break the surface of the book, which I think is also like, an interesting, like, thinking about the short of many layers of reality that exists at the same time in this book, I think, was something that I wanted to sort of, like, really just tear at people's minds with in some way.
Phil 30:38
Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, when I was reading those sections, against the, the other narratives happening, something that I was really thinking about throughout the whole novel is just, I really, really resonated with these seem See, or excuse me, themes around like, voyeurism and being perceived, and how that's juxtaposed with media's influence on how we perceive the world and ourselves. And there's so many really interesting things you do with that from like webcam, like seeing somebody through a webcam, or like seeing somebody through a video. The commercials, I'm wondering, can you talk a little bit about that aspect of the book that I'll let you decide what that means? Exactly.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 31:27
Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of like, really weird kind of voyeurism stuff in this book. And they're all sorts of characters that sort of, like, brush past one another. And the, the reader doesn't really know. And I think that was something that I wanted to, I enjoyed playing with, you know, like some a character like Dunkin. He, like live streams, his whole life, basically. And he's, he's life is boring. Like, he's like an academic. All he does is sit around and like, you know, look at stuff on Google. Like, he's not doing anything super fun. But then there's like Mikayla, who, who is one of the many people who like actually, like watches this stream and like, it is something it's like really comforting for her to just see this, like, boring black man just like living his life. You know, it's just like this. This, I don't know, something very interesting to me about this sort of like ways that we're sort of connected to one another. Not really no, that was sort of definitely something I was trying to play with. But yeah, I think just like, you know, the way that we understand so much is through, like media representation, I think. And through the media, and like, you know, and how weird it is even that all we know is like through like CNN, it's like, what does that mean that we know anything? I don't know. Like, there's so many interesting questions about like, you know, we don't know anything about anything. I don't know. That's all. That's all I learned when I write is that I don't know anything. Nobody knows anything.
Ben 32:46
Yeah, no. And I really liked there's, there's a moment where two characters like exchange their webcams, and again, knowing that it's not, you know, it is this Monday, it's like, deeply mundane, they're just watching each other, like going through cooking noodles or whatever. Yeah. But it also feels like kind of sweet. And so I don't know, I'm wondering if you can talk about like, part of part of what and I think you talked about this at the top with like putting out a piece of writing and it's going out into the void. Part of what a lot of these characters want is just like to be seen like to that, like your life exists when it's being observed or acknowledged in some way. And I think the webcam like really catch captures that.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 33:31
Yeah, no, I think that's that's definitely something that I, you know, I don't know that. Yeah, the idea of like visibility as like existence. Yeah, I don't know. I think there's so many. Yeah, I don't even know where to go with that. But it's an interesting observation that you've had, but I don't know if I have any interesting things to say about it. Okay.
Phil 33:52
Well, I think like to broaden the scope a bit about my volcano. And then maybe we can get into something like your process or other creative journey. One thing I was thinking about, you've, you've talked kind of a bit about it. Last a couple of weeks ago, we Ben and I talked to Eliza and Eric from $2 radio. And we are just like, learning a little bit more about how to dollar came to be and kind of Eric's ethos in terms of picking up books and things like that to publish. For something like my volcano, which I think you have even said in an interview. It's like, hopefully the weirdest book somebody ever reads. I'm curious, like, what that submission process was like, in terms of getting my volcano out there.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 34:41
Yeah, I mean, I thought it was going to be a lot easier to sell than it was. I mean, it I mean, it sold very quickly to people that I trust. I mean, that's the end of the day, but I think I actually thought that it was going to be like, yeah, it's a super weird buck. But it's like very, you know, the, I mean, it's weird. I mean, there are weirder bucks. I think there are weirder books that people read. And they're just like, it's probably the weirdest people. I want it to be the weirdest book that people read and don't feel like completely alienated by, because there are some very alienating weird books and I love and I love some of them. But so I don't necessarily think it should be that weird to speak to people read, but yeah, I mean, it was, I mean, I honestly, I mean, and that's, I mean, part I talked about how I all I do is write for myself. So I'm always a little bit disappointed when like, don't get as many offers as you think you should, because I'm like, I wrote this amazing book, because I'm like, my number one reader and my number one fan. And I was like, How is this not selling? I don't know. And I think so the, you know, the, we, you know, sent it to so many people. And, you know, Arsenal, came with the best deal in Canada, which is great. They did my first novel, and I was very happy to do this, this not with them as well, and to dollar was very enthusiastic very soon, and turned out to be pretty much the only offer in the US from it. So I don't know, it was very, it was somewhat deflating. But at the end of the day, I was very happy with where it ended up. Because there were two people that I've trusted so deeply, to not screw it up. And like, I think I also so much believe in this book that like, I think it could be a success. And I want I'm glad that if it is it's not like some conglomerate that's making money off of me. Like I'd rather I'd rather get Arsenal if you already have some money. So here's hoping that it takes off.
Ben 36:24
Yeah, can you maybe talk about that? The just that process of how do you find publishers? And like, how do you how do you think about, you know, again, when you're when you're thinking about like a pitch, you know, how does that go? And who do you go to?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 36:39
Yeah, well, thankfully, I had an agent for this one. So she did. But, you know, I think at the end of the day, like, you know, I published my first book with Arsenal, it took me a while to, because I, you know, I'm very, I'm prideful, in my own way, and I want you at the end of day one is like my book to have the most possibility to reach the most amount of people like, that's what I care about more than I care about, you know, you know, any sort of prestige. So that's really what I that's really what I prioritize, and that's why I went with Arsenal, because they have good distribution in the US. And my first book was distributed in the US with them, which is great. And that was that's really like at the core of like, what I look for, like, I won't go to a press that I don't believe will actually be able to, like, put my book in front of people, like I don't want to have to be like solely my own, like, marketing manager, like, I'm, I'm very bad at selling myself in some ways. And I think it's also like, I want the book to just exist in this way that like, it doesn't have to do with me, like, that's really the dream is like this book will just like go out there and live its life. And, you know, it might write me a postcard every few years. But like otherwise, like, you know, it doesn't need me to sort of sustain itself. So like the big distribution, or like decent distribution is really what I care about the most. And also I think like, obviously, like a publisher is like committed to, you know, publishing more people like diverse people. And like, you know, Arsenal is you can't get better an arsenal when it comes to that. And to our radio is also really good about that. I mean, it comes with being a smaller publisher, you can take more risks, but yeah, I mean, just like those are the main things that I'm sort of looking for. And this is the authenticity. I mean, you can't get much more authentic than Eric and Eliza. Also, also arsenal is very authentic as well. So that's really like to my to my own sort of marketable detriment, maybe like I feel like that's so much what I'm going to prioritize in my career is like publishing with people who I want to be successful with rather than who will make me successful.
Phil 38:43
No, I mean, I think that's so important to hear that kind of your ethos behind it. I mean, I went to a master's in an MFA, like between prose, writing a nonfiction and it's like, I don't know what your experience was. But I feel like in both of my programs, it's the talks are on publishing. And, you know, if we want to call it quote, unquote, professionalization, or whatever kind of sterile term we want to use, yeah, I feel like there's no knowledge from from a lot of like the faculty in terms of giving it to two students. So I really appreciate like, kind of hearing that kind of behind the scenes in terms of how you're navigating these kinds of situations.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 39:21
Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the worst things that MFA programs do either the worst that just being able to, or any sort of, like academic program, like they're weirdly like, never prepare you to actually, like, be a professional in the world or like, what, like, we had some agent meetings at my school, like, that's as much as we really did. But, you know, I was woefully unprepared I think for compared to probably, you know, anyone who's like, knowledgeable of the literary world, like I don't think I had a very good grasp of like, what I was looking at, I think also they kind of like fluff you up a little and make you think that you're gonna, you know, get this big book deal and like, you know, at the end of the day, like that's not even you They never give you a sense of like, the options and like, is that what you want? Like, I've seen plenty of people get book big book deals, and they never, ever published another book again. So like, I don't know, there's, there's ways that that can really like, ruin your career as well. Like you get a lot of money once, but if you don't make that money back, you might never make money again. Like, there's all sorts of, yeah, there's all sorts of compensations about, you know, professionalism, as we said, sterile professionalism, that just yeah, they definitely don't do a good job, I think across the board, in terms of preparing people for like, what it's actually like, because I mean, I was shocked when I went to grad school, and I thought I was going to be the, like, least published person there. And like, I had, like, three publications or something, and like nobody had ever, like, submitted before. And I'm like, Oh, I had a, I guess I had, like a prof and undergrad that like actually, like, told us to, like submit to things and made us like, do book reviews for venues and stuff like that. I'm just like, Okay, I actually, like learned a little bit of like, how to get a foot in the door in a way that like, you know, I don't know, you just don't. And even at the end of the MFA, like, you know, I don't think we did that much in terms of improving that for people, which I think is really frustrating.
Phil 41:11
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's basically my experience to like, my, during my master's, I came in with a couple of publications, and I felt kind of like the odd one out to the people in my cohort, and for the exact same reason that you're saying, like, I had a professor and undergrad who just, you know, did did the extra work of kind of leading me down that path. You know, one thing I'm always interested in is, for people after they've kind of got they're done with grad school. Is, is stuff like my volcano or vanishing monuments? Is that pretty? Are these works pretty indicative of what you were working on in grad school? Or do you think you kind of your, your writing changed a lot after,
John Elizabeth Stintzi 41:55
I think, I think I was also very lucky to sort of go into grad school with a sense of conviction already, like I saw plenty of my friends go in a little bit more uncertain. And you get really bent and coiled and like stretched in weird ways. If you don't feel like you really, like have a center, I think when it comes to going to grad school like it, you can really mess you up. Like I've had friends who took years for them to recover from, like, the way that their writing had been, like, distorted through grad school, like pulled away from their own sort of, like, center. So I think I was, I, I think I was a little bit more mature in terms of my voice in terms of like what I wanted to do. I mean, I think that obviously, like, in grad school was also kind of when I came to terms a little bit more with my, you know, queer identity, and all that sort of stuff. So I think a lot of the stuff that came after that was, I think, a little bit more authentic to those sorts of experiences. And those sorts of like, characters like that sort of stuff just bled more like, actively into my work after grad school, because grad school was also not like, not a place that I probably would have been able to, like, it was very strange. You know, very white, very straight, very, you know, Long Island sort of experience, like it was very much like a certain kind of environment that like, you know, I don't think I could have really like, come to terms with that there. So I think a lot of that sort of personal work definitely came after grad school. Because that was just when I was just sort of the most coming to terms with that. But I think, you know, there are many things I wrote in grad school, like, you know, I started writing my volcano in grad school, I started, you know, my invention monuments was technically my thesis, except I made it better after it was my thesis. I eventually need to break into my school and go burn my thesis and make sure that like, nobody reads it. But yeah, I think that that's, yeah, I think there was a lot of like, you know, this or reality, this realness, the weirdness like that stuff is all sort of just things that I've sort of dabbled with. You know, I sort of go in ebbs and ebbs and flows, or it's like, you know, a really realistic thing. And then a really strange thing. I like to sort of dabble in all those things. So I think there's a lot of there's a lot of reflection of sort of styles that I had in grad school, but obviously, like a lot of the stuff that I've written since then is a lot more authentic and a lot more intense and a lot more I think human in a way. That's really good. Yeah. But yeah,
Ben 44:31
the biggest post grad school change that I've noticed is the I think my approach to reading is like kind of getting back to normal where it's like I think, I think just the you do that a lot of really intensive reading and you're like I think I hate I think I hate reading now. Yeah, and only recently I've come back I'm wondering, you know, what, what kind of influences you look to what sort of things you read, what are the things that you approach and Are you someone who likes to read stuff that you can pull from that you can kind of feel like, okay, this is a style I want to emulate or this is something that I'm interested in. Are you someone who's like, what is the most off the wall? You know, so different from my interests? In terms of, you know what I want to read?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 45:12
Yeah, I have had a very bad few years for reading. So, yeah, so it's like a hard question for me this because the pandemic has just been really difficult. I think that the thing I respond to the most with reading is stuff that just feels really real. And not even the sense that it feels like, like realism, but like, just stuff that feels so like, it just hits you in the gut. Like, I think that's the thing I always kind of like turned to reading to remind me of, because I can get very carried away with my premises and sort of, like, lose the sort of anchor of like, the humanity that I'm like, at the core, I'm always I think, trying to strive towards, like, I'm trying to write these books that are very, like my volcano, I wanted to write a book that was very weird and very interesting. But I also wanted to feel like there were like real people involved, even though, you know, there's so many of them, like, I wanted you to actually be able to connect with some of these characters, despite the fact there's so many, and it might bounce around a lot. Like I wanted you to feel like anchored in that. So I think a lot of my reading, like, those are the things that I respond to the most, I don't think I'm very susceptible to influence in terms of like, voice or form. I mean, sometimes, you know, if I read somebody's really Voysey, I might get really like Voysey, and whatever I'm writing, but I don't think that's, it's usually not usually just, and honestly, like, the books that I love the most. And that make me want to write the most are the ones that I never finished. Because whenever I read them, I'm just like, I'd rather be writing like, this is just getting me so excited about the idea of writing. I think I just, whenever I see someone doing something that is really exciting, with language, and with like structures, especially stuff like that, like, you know, like Vidkun Stein's mistress by David Marks, it's such a weird book, but It like makes me just want to write instead of read it. Like, it's just because of the way that that book, you know, sort of like my volcano in the sense of like, many weird things sort of next to each other. And there's all these interesting threads. But yeah, I think that that's like structural stuff, I think gets me really excited and makes me want to go write instead of read. So oftentimes, the books that I'm like the most jazzed about, like have never finished. Sad.
Ben 47:23
You're talking about structure, and I am wondering, so I have a buddy who it's like, just cannot give himself an easy time. It's like, each each he's like, what's the most interesting, convoluted, difficult way to structure a thing? Because that it's like, then it becomes, I think, a puzzle to solve in some way. Yeah. And I'm wondering what yeah, what is your relationship to thinking about structure? Is it this kind of like, oh, I want to find something that's going to be interesting and engaging? Or how do you think about like, what to what to choose and what to pick?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 47:54
I mean, I think it just has to speak to the, the work in some way. Like, that's the thing that matters. Like I could write a story like I have a novel that is like a diary that's like very linear, like beginning to end and like it has its own sort of, like structural quirks to it in its own way, but like, I don't think that that's I don't think it's always important to like write something that's very weirdly structured, I think sometimes, like, a fairly standard structure. There's sort of like, you know, a lot of my like, short stories do the sort of like, Present Past Present Past. Like, that's sort of what my first novel does as well. But as well as having some sort of interesting sort of surreal refrains threat. So I think that that's, I don't want the structure to ever come first is the problem like that's, that's the difficult like, puzzle, like, how can I make this more difficult for myself, like, it makes it interesting, but interesting, doesn't make it necessarily like, some feel like somebody has emerged from the work itself, like, it should be part of the, you know, the thing about the weird structure of my volcano works very well with my volcano would not necessarily recommend it for another kind of book, because it works. It's very much part of the thematic sort of structure of the book is this structure, like the structure gives the piece more meaning? I think that's really what I want. What I look for in terms of structure and what makes that sort of search for structure the most engaging is like, How can I find the thing that speaks to this work and makes it sort of more energetic maybe for me, like it is engaging, I do like the puzzle, like it was a very interesting book to put together like, I think it was, it was a fun kind of challenge in in some ways to sort of structure this book. So I think that's definitely like, you know, part of it is the challenge, but more than anything, it has to sort of come from the heart of the book. And if that's if that's not where it's coming from, you're just going to read a book that is in a structure if for some reason no shade on your friend, like, but like, you know, I mean, you know, I think that that's, that makes it more difficult to me if it doesn't feel like it's sort of authentic to the book itself, it's not like I want to see the structure as the thing that makes the book say like, it's like a megaphone. Like it's like the book is saying its thing. But this is what also just makes it even louder. The thing that it's saying is like the way that it's being said. So I think it has to really like come down to the emerge from the idea itself, and sort of like what you want to portray.
Phil 50:25
You know, maybe this is a selfish question. But you know, Ben, again, Ben, Ben and I are both, you know, working on these, these longer projects, and, you know, to speak, you
John Elizabeth Stintzi 50:35
can call them novels, it's no longer projects.
Phil 50:41
You know, I think that, like, I feel I feel like a confident writer, when I'm right, when I'm working in creative nonfiction, maybe to a lesser extent, in short stories, but when I find I find, I'm finding that this novel writing is such a it's not only is it a difficult process, but it feels like it's really reveals a lot about, you know, my own relationship to writing and how I think about narrative and form and ways that I don't get from maybe these other genres. I'm curious for you, kind of this is kind of twofold. Does novel writing feel, um, to use natural setting, and maybe not maybe a bad way of phrasing it, but does it feel natural? Or like, does it feel comfortable in some ways for you? And to, you know, now, now that my volcano was kind of about to be out there, it's, you're done with that with that book? You know, maybe what's something that you're taking away from, from that experience? You know, finishing that novel?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 51:49
Yeah. Okay, what was the first part of the question again? Yeah, basically, because this part was
Phil 51:56
basically like, with with novel writing, is it something Oh,
John Elizabeth Stintzi 51:59
yeah. It doesn't feel natural. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think novel writing, it definitely doesn't. I don't think it should have felt natural, because it wasn't a thing that I did for a very long time. Like I wrote short stories or poetry for so long before I really like I mean, I'd sort of like played at the idea of writing a novel. But something bad, it just never quite said, it's not an easy, I think the thing about the novel is that it you can't cheat it, you can't, you can't fake your way through a novel, you have to just sit there and write the frickin novel like that's at the end of the day, you have to be able to sit there and do it. I think that thinking about things like the structure, and all of these sort of other things that can happen. I think the thing that's so scary about a novel, as a forum is like, unlike a short story, a novel, for the most part can be anything like it can contain anything, it can do anything. Like it's a very versatile form, which is very exciting for me. And also very terrifying for me, and probably very terrifying for you, like, you can pretty much do anything. And you're like, I have to sort of choose what box to sort of set yourself like, Okay, I'm just, I'm just gonna do this kind of novel. Even though you can kind of like play around. Like, I think it's like, it's hard to feel constrained in a novel in a way that like a short story, like, once you hit like, 7000 words, you bet like, Well, I'm gonna wrap it up. Like, it's like, they can't get much more long if I'm gonna publish it. Like, I mean, even that's a little bit unpublished. Well, but, you know, I think that there's, I think the lack of, like, I mean, there's all sorts of like, clear ideas about like, you know, plot and stuff, I guess, if you believe in plot that, like, you can sort of lay upon yourself and be like, Oh, this is what my novel needs to do. But I think the sort of freedom of the novel is definitely one of the most paralyzing things about it, like, it's very difficult to sit down and write a novel, because of just how much it can contain everything. So I think that, and I think moving forward, I mean, my volcano was a book that I definitely, like, was more I mean, I'm always very self indulgent with my writing, like, I'm writing for myself, like, and I say that, but I'm also writing about, like, you know, for someone who like has an idea of like, what, like, is social justice for myself, like, there's a very social element for my book, like, they're very political in their own ways, but at the end of the day, like I'm writing this book, because I think it's interesting to me, and I think it's enjoyable for me, it's me working through something for myself, like, I think that's, and my volcano was such a self indulgent book, in terms of just like, allowing myself to, you know, dip my toe into all these sort of different genres and different sort of, like weird things that I was, you know, write about, right? This made up fake Kafka story, like, I was like, I like Kafka. I loved the metamorphosis, I'm gonna mess with that. So like, you know, that was just like, you know, there was a lot of this book that was just like, I want to write something and I'm gonna set an insane premise and see if I can make it work like that was part of the enjoyment of it. So I think like, from this, if I've learned anything, it's just like to try to lean in as much as possible into those things that really I get me excited, because I think in some ways, you know, occasionally I'll get sort of distracted and, and think too much about like, what, what a book should be like? Or like what like a serious literature might be like, like, I think my first book, maybe it's a little bit more. It is a little surreal, though. So I don't want to see this not surreal in its own way. But I think it's, I might have held back from that a little bit more than I needed to, in some ways. I don't know. But yeah, it's a lot of it. Yeah, I don't think it's a natural form for me. And I think what's so exciting about it, is how unnatural it is because I sort of like it is a sort of puzzle because of that, because you kind of have to figure it out as you go. So it's really, it's a very interesting kind of, and it's so immersive. I mean, like, that's the best thing about the novel as well. Like, I don't think I could really go back to short stories simply because being stuck in a novel is unlike being stuck in anything else like your, it's just, especially in our freaking world, like being able to sort of like slip into this other thing, sort of parallel universe that where things are a little bit more in control, or a little bit more predictable, or unpredictable. And more interesting ways are more beautifully put at least, like, wherever the pain is, is still there. But it's not in this sort of like blunt, blunt force trauma sort of way. Like it's, it's at least like hurting me in a way that like I can respect it. I don't know. Yeah, I think that that's, it's really hard. It's really natural for me now, I think, more than it was before I'd written a novel like I now I don't know, I could go into write a short story. I'm like, What's the point? I don't know. Like, I do so much. Like, I can't get like, it's too easy. Some ways, like I can get in and out. And I kind of the process is so enjoyable to me of a novel. I love to enjoy it.
Phil 56:49
Yeah, that's something I feel like I could just put that on repeat. And yeah, some headphones, that's really good.
Ben 56:56
Is there something we haven't asked you? You know, that you want to you want to say? Maybe, especially about the book, but we're about the process?
John Elizabeth Stintzi 57:06
I don't know. Not really. Because there's so much. I mean, think about my volcanoes, like we could talk about so many things. Like there's so many weird sort of, you know, there's like folktales, and myths and like magic and aliens and all of these things included in this book, like it's just, it's hard to sit start going down a path without being like, well, let's just keep going, you know, I will say if anyone reads this book and thinks like, how can you write something like this, you might look into Scrivener, because that's the only way I that's the thing that has, I mean, that is that has made my writing novels a lot more natural to me, because it is a nonlinear, you know, writing application. And like that was a way that I was able to sort of unlock this freedom to sort of write this thing and know that I don't have to put it right where it is. And like the Word document, like in a Word document would just be the next part of the page. And it's easy to move stuff around, and all that all that sort of stuff. And there's all sorts of like metadata that I can track with this book, specifically, there's so many different labels, so many different things that I was dealing with just to sort of be able to visualize what's going on. So I think that really was something that when I picked that up for finishing, you know, I did this thing with vanishing monuments where I wrote it nonlinearly. So I had all these like, threads like this is like this thread from beginning to end. This is this thread from beginning and I print it all out, put on the floor and was like, if I have to reorganize this, we're in Microsoft Word, I'm going to jump off a bridge like I cannot do that. So that was like the the way that I finally like, justify learning Scrivener because it allowed me to move things around a lot more easily. And that's sort of so much the way that my brain wants to write, I think so it's much nicer to be able to have this place where I don't have to feel like I'm like locked in on like, what is next, but rather, like what do I want to write, like, what's like an interesting thing that I can do to like, you know, sometimes I have to write something interesting. That's like 50 pages later, like 100 pages later, just so I have like something to go towards. It's like that'll be meaningless if I don't write the stuff in between them. So it's, it's a way that I've sort of made my brain work for writing a novel. So that's definitely something that's made it more natural. So UNsponsored plug for Scrivener, if you if that's something that you need, I think it's something that you'd very much for the most part don't need if you write a certain kind of book. Or if you write really linearly, like you don't need it, but if you need it, you need it. worth checking out if that's how you want to write.
Ben 59:34
That's all we have for you. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. I really, really appreciate it.
John Elizabeth Stintzi 59:39
Yeah, no, this has been awesome. Thanks for having me. One. The jogger, the first person to see the peak of the volcano sprouting from the middle of the reservoir in Central Park in the early hours of June 2. Thought the volcano was a breaching humpback whale. But a split second turned it to turn to five. The jogger didn't see the form, rise or fall, and it peaked at only about eight feet high from the surface of the water. She stared at it for a full minute, stretching all the while before continuing her run. She couldn't afford to stop any longer because she didn't want her heart rate to drop.
By noon, the same jogger would approach a local news crew in the park saying that she was the first to have seen it. She was and then her mind first thought it was a humpback whale. On several of the evening news broadcasts they put a photo of volcano rising in the park next to a photo of a humpback whale breaching just off the coast of Rockaway Beach, perfectly foregrounding the Empire State Building. Viewers were asked to respond on social media if they thought there was resemblance or not. To news anchors believe the resemblance was there but for others didn't. A great many people mocked the jogger relentlessly on Twitter, near as many people commented on her looks. When asked why she the jogger didn't report what she'd seen when she first saw it. She didn't have an answer. She grew quiet. The dead air that followed filled the noise hungry microphone with the Sound of camera mirrors flopping until she added you never think you're seeing something new anymore. I figured it was old news. I didn't want to say anything because someone would tell me that they knew that everyone already knew. Also I had six more miles to run
eight camera pans down a mountain in California, resting on a tiny town at the base. The music is quiet, upbeat yet melancholy. As a camera cuts to the derelict town, people walking down the street. Some of the people nod at one another while others keep their heads down. But then the camera starts to shake and everyone looks up horrified and assigned falls off a storefront was a visceral crash as the camera pans up to show the rumbling mountain sharp cut to the townspeople running away from the mountain running toward the camera. Looking back to the mountaintop becomes clear that this is a mudslide. But it isn't mud that comes down the mountain. It's lemons. As the townspeople noticed this, they pause to watch the lemons and golf the town they have safely escaped from the rumbling stops and a few lemons roll to the crowd. A man picks up a lemon smells it and nods his head approvingly. Cut to a shot symmetrical to the first landscape shock with the text one month later over the screen and then cut to the town which is revitalized and crowded. The camera walks through the street filled with happy people in nice clothes, many of whom are drinking from plastic bottles of lemonade. As the camera makes it down the main street it turns to show huge juice factory with sun chunk Juice Company written on the sign after a beat bright san serif letters cover the screen. When life gives you lemons, we've got you covered
1/16 the violet Antarctic light that landed on July 10 seem to have a life of its own. swimming through the snow and ice, pass science stations past mount Aerobus and mount tear until it reached the Southern Ocean. Their delight dove deep to the bottom of the ocean, skirting along the floor. All the while, in a snow storm in the humaneness middle of Antarctica, a column of light change shape. Strips pulled free from the column until they were 10 equally sized triangular columns. One still violet, but the other is red, orange, yellow, green, and blue and indigo. The last three were colors that did not have names that traveled farthest, and were invisible but had existed immeasurably in the universe the whole time. The column stood in a circle in the storm, visible and invisible, but as a whole, unwatched away and waiting, while the violet eyes moved across the planet, scanning it for signs of life, of life worth emulating of life, worth paying attention to
