Jeff Pianki (Remember It Now) on Being Present and Living a More Intentional Creative Life
Episode Description
Jeff Pianki is a singer-songwriter based in LA. He's released two full-length albums, Paper Window, and most recently, Remember It Now, after a 10-year hiatus from releasing music.
We sat down with Jeff to talk about what he's been up to for all these years, the creation of his new album Remember It Now, and his new determination for forging a path in music as his full-time profession.
Hosted by Phillip Russell and Ben Thorp
Episode Notes
You can listen to Remember It Now here.
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Phil 0:15
What's good everybody? Welcome to origin story, the podcast that interviews creators about where they came from to understand how they got here. My name is Philip Russell and I'm with my co host, Ben Thorpe. And today we are interviewing Jeff Pankey, a Michigan musician who currently lives in LA. He's somebody that like, I think has been on the periphery of our lives for so long while we've loved his music, and it was so great to finally get down to sit down and talk with him. This was a really, really good conversation.
Ben 0:52
Yeah, I you know, it's it's so interesting, because it's like, I think you and I had this relationship with Jeff, to some degree. For folks who have listened to the Steven Aguilar episode, I almost feel like, he also had this relationship with Jeff, which is, you know, the album represents for all of us a very specific moment in our lives, that we like, heard it at, like a very pivotal moment. I know, for me, it was like, kind of undergrad in college, which is always like, a very formative time, I think for music, especially, where you're kind of introduced to new bands, and it just like, captures this moment and captures this feeling. And then, you know, what's interesting talking to Jeff is like, to some degree, I think you hear the pressure of that, that he was like, in some ways aware of all the people who had this really intense kind of close relationship to his work and to this album, and and felt to some degree, I think the pressure of that and like felt like, oh, no, the follow up has to be really good. And led to a lot of anxiety around creation and creating, and obviously, I think was at least part of leading to this gap, this kind of 10 year gap between that kind of his last album and his most recent one.
Phil 2:08
Yeah, I mean, Jeff has always been somebody who like I, I discovered him in, in college when we were at Michigan State from a friend and you know, I just loved his music. And it was, but he was kind of like somebody who was hard to nail down. And yeah, and then he kind of like, just disappeared for a really long time. So it was funny, like, about a year ago, I got to interview him for online publication. And I was like the first interview he'd done and like yours, if at all, I feel like there aren't really many interviews with him. And now it's kind of a good chance to get a taste of maybe what he was thinking about his long hiatus. And you know, how he's viewing his music now, because he kind of just dropped this album, basically, out of nowhere, like nobody was really expecting it to happen. And I think that Jeff, yeah, he does a really good job of, you know, talking really honestly about the struggles of kind of dealing with notoriety and exposure, and how that can be just as crippling as it is exciting in terms of like, making art. So I think that was something that I really appreciated hearing in long form from him.
Ben 3:25
Yeah, grappling with that. And you know, and I think we should say, just like, again, like our relationship, and even Stephens relationship, I think with the music was not unique. Like when we were doing some of the research for this episode. It's like, you go to these old YouTube videos, and it's just people like, Oh, I heard this song at x time in my life, and like, it was so important to me. And so I think like, yeah, when you realize that people are resonating with your work in this really deep way, it is, I'm sure gratifying. But also, I think, as people are going to hear, like, really intense and makes you worry about, you know, what is the next thing you're going to say? Especially when what you're saying has such a profound impact on people.
Phil 4:09
Right. And yeah, and I think just, this was a really fun conversation to have in relation to the fact that we just interviewed Steven Aguilar of heat maps who produced Jeff's album. So it was really cool to kind of hear both of them talk about each other, and how they collaborated with one another. And I'm really excited that we were able to kind of just put these back to back for everybody to listen to.
Ben 4:38
Yeah, 100% And I think, yeah, just so great to hear their relationship and like how that has worked through music and Jeff, just a very thoughtful, thoughtful person.
Phil 4:50
Right? Yeah. So how about we let them hear all about it? You're going to be listening to our interview with Jeff piante about his new album or my right now and everything else related to his creative journey.
Jeff tianqi is a singer songwriter currently based in LA, Ben and I are so happy to get to talk with him today. So, without further ado, let's talk to Jeff. Welcome on the show.
Jeff Pianki 5:58
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.
Phil 6:01
Yeah. Yeah, this has been, it's been great to finally connect with you. I interviewed you last year, right around the time when remember, it now came out. And at least in my life, you've always kind of been this mythologized figure. You know, both Ben and I being from Michigan and going to Michigan State like seeing you around. So it's great to finally you know, touch base.
Jeff Pianki 6:23
Yeah, that's awesome. I guess it slipped my mind that both of you went to Michigan State that we ever meet before.
Phil 6:31
I have, I don't think I have been Have you met Jeff before?
Ben 6:35
I so I have I wasn't gonna bring this up. But I have a very distinct memory. You kind of came to MSU. And I think you were hanging out with my cousins one night, and I got invited to hang out. And I think I like pretty quickly. You were like, there and you like maybe played a song and then I like, like, almost instantly fell asleep on the couch. And then I woke up and you were gone. And like that is the extent of our interaction. Okay. Wait
Jeff Pianki 7:05
a minute. You look really familiar. Who's your cousin? Molly? bachik. Okay. Yep, definitely. I remember that, too. That's so funny. Yeah. She
Phil 7:13
told me I was talking to her before we got on air. And she was like, Yeah, you got to tell Jeff that. I said hello. And I hope he's doing well and that specifically to say hello to the Boston terriers
Jeff Pianki 7:25
Oh, my gosh, yeah. Free to eat in Diego. The two Boston terriers that I know,
Phil 7:32
that was a good fun fact for me to learn because I'm my family is like, also really big into Boston terriers was like, Oh, shit. We're kindred spirits. That's so funny.
Jeff Pianki 7:42
Yeah, they're sweet dogs. Well, cool.
Phil 7:46
Well, again, you know, congrats on releasing your album, remember now, last year, I think just to start us off, it might be good just to hear a little bit about, you know, what that experience was, like, kind of releasing this album after so long, and especially, you know, kind of right at the start of what a lot of us were experiencing with the COVID-19 and things like that.
Jeff Pianki 8:11
Yeah, I was having a little bit of a internal crisis, I guess, crisis is a big word for that, about how I wanted to release the record, with everything kind of going the way that it was. And then I, the day that I released it, I actually was on the phone with Steve from heatmaps, who helped me produce the record and was just kind of talking about how I wasn't sure about album art and little small things, album titles and all that stuff. And I showed him what I had. And he was kind of like, we should just release it. And so that day, I kind of felt emboldened and just put it on Bandcamp and tried to upload it as quickly as I could to all the other platforms. And it immediately felt so cathartic to just have something new in the world. And Steve and I had been working on this record for since probably, I mean, it's, some of the songs are like seven, eight years old, but we were actively recording since like 2018 2019. So it just felt so good and cathartic to get everything out into the world especially during that time. I think we all felt so isolated and disconnected from people and there's no thing that I can think of that feels more connecting than like sharing the most vulnerable work that you've been pouring your heart into for so long. So it was crazy. But also weird to not have like shows afterwards.
Phil 9:53
Yeah, I definitely want to get into like thinking about touring and everything like my I have a really good friend for onto your tour, you're actually going to be playing some shows with Stephanie Lee Stephanie Hapa. And, yeah, yeah, it's it's funny like, thinking about when the album came out last year, it was kind of like a breath of fresh air or like a cathartic reunion in some ways, because you know, your music back when I first met Stephanie in like 2012, or something was something that we really bonded over. And that was kind of it was nice to kind of just see your name out there again, and social media, especially because you kind of, I would, in my words have a little bit of a enigmatic kind of persona online. So
Jeff Pianki 10:36
that is so funny to hear. I don't feel enigmatic, but I guess I'm with me all the time. But it felt good to It felt good to kind of creep back into the internet world that had brought so much fear to me for so long, and to feel really supported by people. And to feel like people responded, in a way that made me think that it wasn't pointless to put music out again. So that was really encouraging.
Ben 11:09
I mean, do you feel comfortable talking about kind of that that journey? Obviously, I think the gap between paper window and remember, it now is like about 10 years? Yeah. And so maybe you can talk about I mean, that that period? And what was kind of going on in that time?
Jeff Pianki 11:28
Yeah, 10 years is actually, I kind of had this thing in my head that I was like, I'm not going to go a full 10 years without releasing another record. That was the thing that I had in my head. Even when I was kind of on hiatus. Essentially, what had happened was I started writing songs, because I started playing guitar. And I didn't really know how to play guitar well enough to play a lot of songs. And so I would just like make up songs. And it was a really good way of expressing and I kind of like, was doing YouTube and all these different social media platforms, and like posting songs and not really thinking about it. And then I put this record paper window out that I just made on GarageBand by myself, with save for a couple of voices and some cello that someone played. And people were listening to it, and it totally freaked me out. And I just had that sense that I was like, Okay, I need to make something that is deserving of people's attention. And I just got really in my head and couldn't write songs for a while. And I was loving, playing shows and connecting with people. But it was just this thing, where I felt like I had to, like, deem my art valuable or not valuable as if that's even a thing that you can really do. It's such a subjective thing. And I know that now, but kind of spent six or seven years, relearning that and kind of rewiring my brain so I could be a little more open and forgiving of myself.
Phil 13:14
Yeah, that's, that's interesting. I mean, just thinking about, you know, early kind of social media and like YouTube, especially, I feel like that story about kind of the unexpected exposure, like I'm just, I'm just releasing videos because like, I want to, and it's fun. And then, you know, when something kind of pops off, and you're like, oh, shit, like, Am I worthy of that? Like, is it? Am I worth it? Or is this thing worth worth, the exposure that it's getting? I feel like that, that makes a lot of sense. Like, that anxiety that could easily arise from that.
Jeff Pianki 13:50
Yeah, it is a real thing. It's so easy to make something when you don't think people are paying attention. And then all of a sudden, when you feel like people are looking at you, you suddenly are aware of what you're doing and you have to think about what you're doing. It's like when you're a little kid and you draw pictures you're not thinking about whether it's good or not, you're just expressing and there's something really compelling about that when you learn how to do something fairly well and then you can just express without thinking but when you start being too self conscious about it it's a really dangerous spot to be in
Ben 14:33
Yeah, I saw I you know, I was reading both kind of some posts on Bandcamp and then kind of below some of the your YouTube videos and it was like, a lot of people were like so I think very clearly impacted by your your first album, and like talk about like coming of age to music and remembering like going to a live show and like how important that was to them. And again, I think like you're saying that that can be like really anxiety inducing that it's like, wow, I have to like live up to This expectation of me that people have kind of created. And I'm wondering, you know, because obviously, so we talked to Steven Aguilera of heat maps. And it sounds like he also maybe had a similar relationship to your music, where, like, he talked about it, like, you know, it was really impactful and really moving and like he had this like, you know, relationship with your album before he had one with you. And I'm wondering if maybe working alongside him did that help you kind of work through some of this, like, fear of how people would perceive kind of whatever the next thing was that you put out.
Jeff Pianki 15:38
I think he is just such a special producer and person and that he really knows how to empower the people that he's working with and make them feel capable, and make them feel like they aren't. Whatever vocal take where they messed up a line or were ridiculously flat somewhere. He's really good at having vision and, and not getting in the way of the person trying to create it. He I don't even know how to quantify how much that relationship did for me, and has continued to do for me, because he's, I mean, his catalogue, like he's worked with people that I've been listening to since I was in high school like Damien Jurado is a huge one. He worked on all the songs that I really admired. So the fact that he wanted to spend time working with me, and I really love his songwriting, too. So it was just a really healing process. And we were making his record at the same time. And he was kind of similarly going through this gap and releasing music. So it just felt really healing and
difficult at times. But it's really special to find a collaborator that you can
that can champion you that you can champion. So rare thing I feel really grateful for it.
1000 times both myself into the ones I love. Thought I believe what I repeated enough. That's not how it works. Pat took the wrong advice. tried moving on for us in Mark goodbye. How do you move on with heart if you learned to breathe, you need her? You learn to breathe?
Phil 17:56
Yeah, it's funny listening to Steve talk about his album, kissing teeth. He kind of refers to remember it now as like a sister album or like, you know, you know, vice versa, or however you want to put it. And it's interesting, because I think for me, when I think of like music, the producer is kind of always something that's a bit nebulous for me to understand as someone who's not a musician, like what does it do? Like, you know, people talk about, like, this producer has a specific sound. And it's funny because listening to y'all is two albums next to each other. It's like the first time where it's like, oh, shit, I can actually hear, like, I can hear this kind of thing that that Steve is doing that you're doing on his album. And it was a really kind of interesting experience.
Jeff Pianki 18:45
Oh, I love that that came across. I mean, first of all, it was basically the same band for both. We had Harrison Whitford play guitar, and both and he is just phenomenal. He killed it. James McAllister played drums. So having a great band was really cool. And then we both played and sang on each other's things. But yeah, it was like similar vision, we would always go on these really long walks and talk about music and song structure and just philosophy and how we felt about things and we would send bounces back and forth. And I kind of had a weird perception of what it means to be a producer and working with engineers. I was kind of freaked out by it because I had never had a positive experience before. And he was really sensitive to that. And I owe him a lot for that. But I think at the end of the day, my understanding is that it's the role of a producer is basically to oversee and to help the artist achieve their vision basically. And kind of be a problem solver. And he was definitely that For me on that record in a big way.
Phil 20:04
Yeah, out of curiosity, you know, you'd mentioned earlier that with remember it now some of the tracks have kind of been in high fat, a long gestation period. And at the same time the album feels very, like cohesive, cohesive to me, I'm curious, like, what maybe you were thinking about as you were constructing the album, was it like something that the themes are pretty clearly like I'm working through Acts and I'm, and I'm composing these songs to, to facilitate that or was it like as you are kind of working with, with Steven the band, they kind of blossomed from there.
Jeff Pianki 20:42
It was kind of outside of recording all of the how the songs were formed, I was doing a lot of different things. I was in like a songwriting club, with a couple friends that I had met through work. And every Tuesday, we had to post a song and it didn't matter how good it was, and oftentimes, they were just totally unlistenable. But I had a couple songs from that, that were from there, like song about was from that? Elon was from that? I think a couple others. But I think a big thing that made it cohesive was just the two of us being together, the band kind of being the same. We were talking and thinking about a lot of the same things. And we were really calibrated in that time. Listening to some of the similar things. And it was I think we were just thinking about our own humanity, and sharing that a lot. And I think that that record is sort of just a very introspective record and his as as well. So I think that's the that's kind of the big theme there. It's just introspection,
Ben 21:54
one of the things that he mentioned, that I've been thinking about a lot is like, for him, he was talking about, like creating songs that feel emotionally true, and then writing kind of the songs themselves being like fictionalized, in order to kind of justify the feeling that he's like trying to grapple with. And I'm wondering for you like, how is your music? Is it largely autobiographical? Is it largely fictional? I mean, like, where is that for you?
Jeff Pianki 22:24
There is no line, and sometimes it's 100% autobiographical, and then sometimes it's totally fictional. I totally agree with them that sometimes it's easier to make something, communicate as real. If you don't have to be tied to keeping it strictly nonfiction. I think usually my process is just, it's like, it's like molding, like clay or something. And you're like, forming little pieces. And if you get a little piece that seems like it might look like an eye or something, you're gonna carve out an eye. It's like, I always have to know what I'm looking for the next step. And trying to make it make sense. I think there are a lot of writers and even Steve is really interesting that he can make something that is kind of feels abstract and like, build a meaning out of it, I think I usually have to know exactly what the through line is or what the story of the song is pretty early on. In order for me to keep going with it. Very rarely do I not have any idea what song it's about. And I kind of wish that I could do that a little bit more. Sometimes you get really interesting. more abstract word paintings.
Phil 23:46
Yeah, what I had a curiosity. I know what like some of my favorite favorite tracks on the album are. But before kind of revealing those I'd love to just maybe hear, like, what are some of the tracks that, you know, maybe resonated the most? Or maybe on the flip side gave you the most trouble in terms of, you know, completing the project?
Jeff Pianki 24:05
Oh, that's a good question. I would say one of the songs that I thought was going to be a lot of trouble that originally wasn't going to be on the record because I thought it just felt a little bit like goofy and like, weirdly 90s or something was way to the world. And we were like, Let's just record it and see what happens. And it was one of those songs where it was like everything we threw at it was just working for some reason. So I feel like that was a deceptively easy one to record. I would say maybe the hardest one to put together was Elon. It's just like kind of totally felt hard to tie in to everything in there. I feel like there are still a couple things that I would change about it, but overall I think that it fits in it for you was good. Iris was kind of a tough one to put together. But I'm also pretty happy with that. Yeah, I don't know, I'm actually surprised with how smoothly most of the record came out once we were actually recording it was more like writing the record that really felt like a slog. I would say the easiest one to write was probably song about surprisingly, that one just like that's one of the those songs that just like writes themselves, once you have like a plot device to move everything forward or like a song device.
Ben 25:40
Yeah, I kind of want to get you to see if you feel comfortable kind of talking about you were talking before about kind of wrestling with like, well, what is what is my kind of place in music? And like, what does it mean to create? And maybe you can talk about to kind of moving out to LA and getting an office job. And then like, also having these questions and like how that how that added to this moment of kind of thinking about like, well, what is what is my music? And like, what is it? What is its place in my life? Basically?
Jeff Pianki 26:15
Sure, I think the big lesson was kind of learned through doing a lot of things that I didn't want to do. And it was less this compulsion to make music and think about my place in it so much as eliminating other options. And it ultimately being pretty clear that the thing that I wanted to do was make music because it was the it's the thing that feels good to me, it it feels it's challenging, and it definitely trips me up sometimes. And I have hard days, trying to get out of my own head with it. But I love it. And when I and I love that struggle when I can maintain a peace of mind about it. Yeah, I think it was more just I had been in a lot of really negative environments. And I was like, why am I putting energy into these jobs and things that I hate? Why don't I just put energy into changing my relationship with something that I really love? And so that was pretty big.
Ben 27:20
Yeah. So you know, thinking about song about and then thinking about kind of weight of the world, I feel like, for me, a lot of the themes that jumped out were like, you know, kind of anxiety and depression. And I'm wondering if you feel comfortable talking about how those things kind of shape your music?
Jeff Pianki 27:39
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a huge thing. And I definitely feel comfortable talking about because I think that most of us are dealing with it. And that was kind of a thing that helped me be okay with dealing with it, that it's just something that is part of the human condition that you're going to overthink things and it's okay that some days are really challenging, and I'm just trying to get more and more good habits and be kinder to myself. And that took years to be able to do and started meditating and taking long walks and just practicing things and trying to have the habits of someone who has good habits and doing it doing it based on like, logically I know this will work before I necessarily feel it and I always feel better afterwards. So
Phil 28:41
yeah, I felt that the the songs on the album do a good job of placing us either, you know, within your head or the character's head in these kind of minut moments. I could be misma misremembering, but I feel as if there's a moment about like, washing dishes or something like there's like a there's like a fight or like an argument that that happens between the character and and their partner and this and the characters like ruminating on it. And no, it's this. Yeah, I think that the album and a lot of your music, I don't know if this is intentional, it kind of feels like it is that a lot of your music seems to grapple with with memory and the changing relationship to how we feel about our memories and you know, whether it be place or objects or people I'm wondering if, if that's true, and if you feel like maybe your perspective is changing because it kind of feels like it is on this album.
Jeff Pianki 29:42
Yeah, I that's very accurate on all fronts. I spent a lot of time in my life thinking about not just like, my memory, but how my perception of how I remember things is affecting how I'm doing things now. And ultimately, in a lot of ways, keeping me from being present in the moment. And I think writing a lot of these songs too, and talking about anxiety, like the dishes line, like, that's totally a thing that I do, like, I will, like, do dishes and then like audibly make a sound and cringe because I'm remembering some dumb thing that I said, that somebody does not even remember from a long time ago. And it's almost cathartic now, because it's like a song. So when I saw, I can't, I can't really do that anymore without laughing at myself. It's like, so it's so dumb for me to like, do a thing that I have a song lyric about that it's like, almost cliche at this point. So it's, that's been kind of a fun, a fun, weird side effect of, of writing the songs. Yeah,
Ben 30:58
I almost felt like some of the, you know, Phil's kind of talking about the relationship to memory. And here in some ways, it felt heavier to me, like I was thinking back to and, sorry, I pulled out some of the lyrics, but you know, a song like this this town are on forgetting feel like they are in some ways kind of about trying to hold on to a moment or a place before it kind of slips away. And the remembering here feels a little bit heavier. Like it's in some ways trying to grapple with, you know, a relationship that's falling apart or, you know, and so I'm wondering if you can talk about it in that way. And maybe how, you know, these, the weight of these memories feels heavier here on this album?
Jeff Pianki 31:45
Yeah. I think that I had more of a tendency to be, what's the word that I'm sentimental? When I was writing songs when I was first writing songs, and the kind of into adulthood and then the past few years, my thing that I keep trying to come back to is I want to live more in the present moment and be in a in more of a flow state, I guess. And that's not like wanting that doesn't mean that I'm not still going to have intrusive thoughts or like, consider the past and how it affects me. And I think that, like, I'm in my 30s now, and between, like 27, and 30, is a time when you're kind of confronted with all of these things that you've done in your teenage years and early adulthood. And I think just the nature of what you're going to be writing about, at that time, which is when I was writing that record are going to be heavier, like, relationships ending and moving and big career shifts? And yeah, I think it was, I was just thinking about a lot of big transitional things that I just didn't really have any perception of when I was younger.
Phil 33:18
Yeah, I mean, it's sorry, it's just like, I feel like a lot of what you're, you've been saying during the interview is really resonating with me right now. I'm just thinking about like, work and creation. And you know, like, I mainly write nonfiction. So I have a tendency to kind of be in my head and like memories and thinking about that. And I really, yeah, I appreciate kind of what you're saying about the present illness, while also you know, still finding a way to, to productively put yourself into memory and, and do something with it. That's not just like, navel gazing or something
Jeff Pianki 34:00
totally. I relate to that. Also, I was just talking with someone about had a long bout where I couldn't get into fiction, even though I've always loved reading fiction. And I was reading like nonfiction and always thinking about being productive and way in my own head. And only recently, I've just been getting back into reading fiction and like, kind of being more present in that. In that, like, not everything has to be centered around. Like evaluating what's productive and what's not productive all the time. To kind of a weird thing to that, like, getting lost in the fantasy of fiction can be more like make you more present than like reading nonfiction.
Almost as if we were hanging by a thread. Broken back I thought that was looking back in To the back of mind I saw a five foot narrative you saw our love for you saw the water in the river. And now I know what I did
Phil 35:38
yeah, it makes me think about what you said at the top of the interview about you know, starting that YouTube channel, and, you know, when as you kind of gotten more people looking at it, it makes you kind of question not only your work, but it makes it harder to produce work, right? Because you kind of start to think like, oh, there's expectations there. And yeah, I can I can really empathize with that just thinking about like, as I started publishing more, like, as I like, went to grad school for creative writing, how that changed my relationship to writing and like maybe being a bit over analyzing and similar to you, I think. And I think Ben too, like we've all kind of been circling back to fiction, these days as a way to maybe channel some of that, that imagine it nation that is, is still present and creative nonfiction, of course, but it's it's different. Yeah. So it's not as raw.
Jeff Pianki 36:33
Yeah, sometimes it's helpful to see something in a more like, almost exaggerated form that where you can like really identify archetypes and truth and write nonfiction. And be inspired by fiction in that way.
Ben 36:49
I kind of have this question about, you know, so much of this feels like it's about, you know, unpacking relationships in some degree, and like, how that's impacting you. But I also felt like there was maybe I'm wondering how much the kind of outside disasters or you know, you know, the COVID-19 pandemic, or just like, you know, logging online and seeing what's going on in the world, also kind of influenced this album, and obviously, it came out during the pandemic, and how much of that kind of broader world stuff plays into these, you know, emotional landscapes that you're creating? That's
Jeff Pianki 37:36
kind of a hard question to answer. I mean, the wreck the question or the record was finished. By the time COVID-19 was on the radar, it was finished around January. And I think there were a lot of things that found their way in I mean, like, Trump's presidency, and like, just how a lot of things were kind of gearing up to get a little bit more hectic than they had felt for a while. But yeah, I think the record sort of was outside of that, I think the next record is probably going to be a bit more directly influenced by those things. But yeah.
Phil 38:32
Yeah, it's interesting, because Ben and I, it could just be, you know, like, Ben has a climate change podcast. And, you know, Ben and I are also working on like, something else that's like, related to climate change. And then, you know, just the, the general state of the world but you know, better and I just kept on coming back to like, listening to the album and kind of feeling like, some of the songs just have like, this kind of, like, apocalyptic vibe. Like, like, like black hole or, or the weight of us and not like, I don't even know exactly how to describe it, but maybe Ben, you could describe it better, but it's not like the lyrics are necessarily saying it overtly, but it just kind of has that feeling.
Ben 39:13
Yeah. What do you think that I think, you know, just some of the some of the lines and I'll have to go look, but it just jumped out that it was like it almost felt like it was creating this mood of again, and maybe it's just like reading too much into it. Because it's like, yeah, that's totally a space where I'm at, but I'm like, oh, there's some heaviness but it also feels like it's kind of looping into things about like looking out in kind of nature, and also seeing or feeling that reflected of just like, things aren't meant to last in some ways.
Jeff Pianki 39:44
Yeah, yeah. I love that. Actually. I think that I think that that that makes complete sense because a lot of also like lyrical themes, especially black hole and And like move you and things like that it's kind of about, there's a lot of there's a lot of death in there and, and dealing with endings and our circumstances definitely change. But I think we process everything through a filter of like, building on our first early experiences as kids. So it's like, we're not really ever feeling any new feelings just kind of amalgams of older feelings. And so, yeah, it feels like the world is ending when you are dealing with a loved one dying or going through an intense breakup or having a traumatic experience where your perception of something is totally skewed and, and you realize that you're not in a good situation. I mean, yeah, it's all relational stuff. And we are in a relationship with the planet that we live on and with everyone else, who is also in a relationship with us. So that makes sense that those themes are coming out and I that's cool that you felt that
there are secrets or there were buried with our love. There are shadows in there is cold in the car. There is light still break in with the weight of
Phil 41:49
it? Yeah, yeah, I guess just to kind of keep on going towards that, like, you know, home and childhood and, you know, right now you're you're getting ready to start touring. Again, some of these some of these tracks kind of coming into the fall. And you're doing like some Midwestern shows, or at least that kind of seems like what a lot of them are. I'm curious, like, Well, for one, is Michigan somewhere that you visit that you visited often since you've left and to like, what is that? What does that feel like kind of, you're going to be going back and kind of playing songs again. Back home,
Jeff Pianki 42:39
I am super excited. Big thing with Michigan is that with, I've been working in the service industry for six, seven years out here. And I haven't been able to come home for holidays. I visit like maybe once a year, unfortunately, just because it's so hard to get time off. And now having just left my job and suddenly freed up to be able to do some stuff in Michigan is I was born in upstate New York, but I kind of consider Michigan, like home base. It's where my family still lives. It's where I started playing shows and Michigan just feels like the right place to, to play and to get back in the swing of playing shows again. Also, I don't have any agent or management. And so it felt like the obvious choice to talk to people that I had known in Michigan and I have a good friend named Nate who runs audio trees, booking company, and he's just the best and he's been super helpful with setting these shows up. So that was a big thing as well, I
Ben 43:57
guess. How are you feeling about like, I don't know. Is it a kind of homecoming and what does that feel like right now?
Jeff Pianki 44:08
Yeah, definitely feels like a homecoming. It feels I'm super excited. I am also a little bit nervous. Like, I've had weird, intrusive thoughts where I'm like, what if? What if this person comes in there, they like don't have a good time or I like, say something stupid, or I don't know, the thoughts that anybody has who has anxiety, but overall, I'm just so pumped to deceive people into it's just excited. It's so exciting to be playing shows again. I can't even believe that it's actually happening. It's like, hard to wrap my mind around it and allow myself to get excited for it but excited to play with Stephanie and Jessica who are opening the shows and to see a lot of old friends who I haven't gotten to see in Some of them 10 years, like, seven to 10 years, so it's gonna be great to see everybody.
Phil 45:10
Yeah, I guess I didn't realize that, um, that you are originally from New York. Where did you, like kind of live there a long time? Or was that, you know, one of those things where you're there for a couple of years and then moved to Michigan.
Jeff Pianki 45:22
I lived there until I was 11. Actually, my mom's family is from Michigan, but I grew up near Albany. And, oh, nice. It's a pretty magical place. And this town was sort of a fictionalized version of that place, but actually, where I grew up, is, it's like, still totally gorgeous. And I one time when I was on tour in like 2011 We stopped there like two hours out of the way and slept in our Price Chopper parking lot. And it was like, one of my most magical experiences on tour and yeah, Saratoga Springs, New York. It's a beautiful spot.
Phil 46:05
That's interesting. No, like I I'm, I'm from Virginia, like technically, but I only lived there for a couple years and then I moved to Michigan so I spent most of my life in Grand Rapids but when I went to Michigan State my parents actually moved to Albany so I kind of became familiar with that area and like the Price Chopper and yeah, wasn't Wegmans or something like that as the other one out there. So that's that's interesting to me. I think because I have in my head conceptualized your music so intrinsically with Michigan as like it just feels like Michigan to me. So that's it's interesting to kind of learn a little bit about your past in that way.
Jeff Pianki 46:47
I do. I love that it feels like Michigan to you. It feels like Michigan to me to Michigan still feels like the place and even though I love LA there's like still something like the weather out here is not conducive to like being a pale redheaded guy. I still miss the seasons and Michigan still has that thing for me.
Ben 47:10
Do you feel comfortable playing some songs for us?
Jeff Pianki 47:16
Yeah, let's see if I still got a voice on me but I think I could do this okay, I think I'll play song about for starters that feels like a good one to segue into. This is a
song about how long it takes to get over an ex to song about a song about sex. This is a song about my neighbor who has hundreds of friends and throws parties more than anyone that I've ever met
these are some lines about the times I was severely depressed kept the same clothes on I never got out of bed. This is the part about how hard it was to get out of my head. start letting things out instead of holding him in
this PSNI recalling all the long distance calls and when you were falling in love but you are living abroad sometimes I find myself searching for space. So I remember how lonely I was in those days. This is a song about you and me. And everything else that falls in between this is a song about you. This is a song where I go back to a time long gone I get another chance to fix words that came out wrong. But when I finish I go back to right now. In the people I love are nowhere to be found. So I am fixed all the moments are fixed. I get a new appreciation for the good stuff I miss this is a song about you and me. And weddings and funerals and time traveling. This is a song about you This is a verse about expecting the worst, knowing nothing stays gold. But still knowing you worth this is a bit about the way that it feels to be lost in the thought that you'll lose something real. This is a song about letting go without letting you down and then losing control about saying I'm sorry, before it's too late and forgiving your friends in the people you hate. This is a song about you and me. And making the choice to say what you mean. And everything else that falls in between this is a song about you in the?
Phil 51:13
room that was great. Thank you. Thank you for playing that.
Jeff Pianki 51:31
Thanks. Any other questions? Or should I just jump right into another one?
Ben 51:44
Yeah, I'm wondering if you can maybe just talk about like, you know, we were talking about like, tie questions about time, and I feel like that song is so much about time, but also how kind of time and things changing, come back to being about relationship. And yeah, I don't know, maybe you can talk about like that central conceit of like, this is a song about and also the way that the thing that you're trying to make it about is also continually shifting that I feel like kind of loops back into this conversation about the way that time continues to kind of shift this sands of, of what the thing really
Jeff Pianki 52:21
is, I think it's there's this interesting place when you're making something that it's really hard to get to, it's like, sort of feels unconscious. It's like the flow state. But I think that saying, basically, that that song was kind of born out of wanting to make one of those, like lists songs like for this songwriting challenge, like, It's been one week, whatever. And I remember writing down, this is a song about, and then I just listed a bunch of stuff and then started playing it. And it started out as kind of like a fast like, mountain goats esque thing. And I think that just having that this is a song about and not really editing and just like saying everything, and having that device that kept the song grounded, kind of let me go and go wherever I wanted to. And it feels really awesome when you're making something and you can like find a thing that allows you to just kind of roll down the hill and collect everything as you're going.
Phil 53:46
Now, I really dig that I think that I think that kind of ethos about these, these flashes in time are these moments and time is is really present and a lot of your of your music, I almost like put you in the same realm as like some other musicians that I like, like, like Andy Shaw, or, you know, math, Matthew Millia. I think both those two do a lot with, you know, narrative type songwriting, but it's kind of it's very narrative, right? It's very, like, here's all here's a full full last story. Like it could be it could be a short story. Whereas I think that your music does such a good job of really just boiling down like these, these really distinct moments in time. And it was really present on this record, you know, again, just thinking about the, the washing the dishes moment, or I think another song, another song that that sticks out to me all the time is the weight of us. Just the moments that happened in that.
Jeff Pianki 54:47
Yeah, I mean, first of all huge compliments. Matthew Millia. And Andy shauf Are such incredible writers. And I think that people like that are people that have made me feel self conscious in the past. Because that is not something that I am often able to do at all like the really tight narrative. It's a really hard thing to do. And those guys are so good at it. But the thing that I am and do have is me and what I like. And I think that a big thing on this record was just kind of being open to like, if I like it, then somebody else is going to like it and don't really worry about trying to evaluate whether something is good or not. Because that's something I've definitely struggle with is editing things before I even see what they are. So big thing about this record was just like doing things because I find them compelling because I also I like a lot of different weird music. And I also like a lot of like pop music and I love pop structure. And I love things that are kind of vague sometimes to where I can project my own fantasy on to it or like make it about me because we love to do that with art.
Phil 56:16
Well, should we should we play another one? If you're up to it?
Jeff Pianki 56:20
Yeah. Maybe I'll play maybe we'll play a new one that I'm working on.
Phil 56:31
Oh, exclusive.
Jeff Pianki 56:34
I could totally mess this one up. But it's been one that's been kind of stuck in my head the working title is keep your friends you can keep
your friend you can have your whole life, honey. I liked most of them. But it's another PC you can keep holding on. Oh, you can keep your thing. I can't listen to half of them without crying. I can't take it into your own money. You can keep your bank you can keep your friends you can have your friends. You can have your friends you can have your whole life. shortline
Phil 58:21
casual this bust out like the next James Taylor track.
Jeff Pianki 58:26
Thank you so much. I was nervous about that one. But it's been stuck in my head. And it felt like a fun exercise to try and make myself a little uncomfortable.
Ben 58:38
Yeah, yeah. Well, what's the you want to talk a little bit about kind of
Jeff Pianki 58:42
where that? Yeah. It's sort of about that feeling when you see somebody and they're part of kind of how do I explain this? I was really self conscious about the line. But I kept coming back to it because I thought that it sounded mean but it's not mean at all. Like you can keep your friends and you can keep your bands. But I think it's like that feeling when you go through a breakup or an end of a relationship and you are trying to figure out what things from a person that you want to keep for yourself and what kind of things are just too much and feel like they're part of somebody else's world and maybe they're best left with that other relationship. And it's like, romantic or platonic. Like, there are some bands that I just like, can't listen to anymore because they just remind me of like a weird relationship or like, even if it's been remedied since then, it's uh that's that's the basis of it.
Ben 59:55
Yeah, you know, I was thinking about this too, because it's like, thinking about the power You know, we were talking about the power of kind of your, your first album, but also that I just like more than more than, you know, movies or writing short stories or, you know, a lot of things. I think music is just always tied to a moment in your life. And tied to like a very specific place. And yeah, that it like can be this like really emotionally cathartic thing to come back to, but also can be like a really painful thing that like that a song can route you in a moment where you're like, Yeah, I don't really want to go back there. Like, I'm good on that.
Jeff Pianki 1:00:32
Yeah, absolutely. It's, yeah, it's a powerful force, and can be used in a lot of ways and can have a lot of different effects. And some thing can have one effect on one person and a totally different effect on another person, which is really interesting, and also has been equally devastating and, and encouraging at different points in my life to when I'm writing things. I'm like, Oh, how's this gonna come off? And it's like, now I'm kind of at a point where it's like, some people are gonna like this thing, and some people are not gonna like this thing. And that's great.
Ben 1:01:10
Yeah, it's also funny that you're that you're thinking about, like, is aligned to mean? Which I don't know if that's an interesting thing to think about, especially when it's like, I think so many people would be would just be like, well, this is a, this is a true thing that I feel therefore, it's okay to say, but I like that you're like, but is this is this this crossed the line? Is this just like a little bit too? Hurtful, or, you know, glib about how another person might perceive it?
Jeff Pianki 1:01:41
Yeah. And it's also one of those things where it's like, being a songwriter is really fun, because you can just, it can be fiction, or fact, and you can kind of blend it, and people aren't always paying attention to exactly what you're saying. And you can get away with a lot of things. But also like, that song is not about an X that I have had. But also I'm like, is an X that I've had going to think that this is about them. And like, it's like, just weird things like that. Like, I'm still a person that exists in the world and get self conscious about those things. But like, I feel like it's more about that than like, are people going to hear this? And like, think that I'm a dick. Okay, because? Because I that's like, I don't think that I'm trying to be a dick. So I don't know.
Phil 1:02:35
No, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, it just makes me think about I mean, I'm, again, I'm not a musician, but just thinking about my friends who are like, I imagine it's a really strange kind of place to be in when you create something like music, because, you know, people can draw so many of their own conclusions with it. And I think especially when you're when you're navigating, like your friend groups, and you're dealing with, with music, I bet it's incredibly easy to kind of worry about that, like, oh, is so and so gonna think that I'm talking about them because they could kind of see themselves in this part, regardless of whether it was. Yeah, totally. That makes a lot of sense.
Jeff Pianki 1:03:16
Yeah, it's a it's a big struggle to be a creative person to. It's so funny, because I think that we're all doing it constantly. We're like, Is this about me? Am I doing this thing that's making them upset? Like we're also passive aggressive about, like, the things that we're creating all the time or something?
Ben 1:03:39
Fill it filled in. We have time for what just one more?
Jeff Pianki 1:03:42
How do we feel? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. One more song.
Ben 1:03:45
Yeah. How do you feel Jeff? One more? Yeah,
Jeff Pianki 1:03:47
I could do one more. One. Since we, I
Phil 1:03:56
think, if I remember correctly, Steve was saying that you have a lot of weird tunings or something with your guitars, and he had to, he had to learn whatever your tunings are for his song, yeah,
Jeff Pianki 1:04:07
he, this was a big point of envy for me, because I would always have my guitar in a different tuning. It's something that I do to try to, like get myself to get tripped up and kind of lost, because I, that's kind of my way into making something new is like, getting so lost to where I can't get in my head about it. It doesn't always work. But Steve would come over all the time and pick up my guitar that was in a weird tuning, and then he'd write a song on it in like, a day. And it was amazing to watch but I wish that I could have written with that sort of speed like that.
Ben 1:04:49
It's so funny hearing that story from the other side, because I think the way he was talking about it was like, Yeah, you always have in these amazing tunings, and I couldn't I wouldn't know what to do, Jeff What a genius
Jeff Pianki 1:05:02
that's so funny. All right, so this one it's just in dropped D It's not that fancy if either of you play guitar but this is a this is an older one called Old Habits off of that paper window record
four days in a call that didn't come through cold air and all of that never Suraj Akiva morale Why don't you keep the morale down just stumbling in the dark just stumbling in the dark fonts and the man walks up to you for care every largest tell the truth Where did you keep the morale watch keep the morale down just stumbling in the dark
just stumbling in the door for years and men false so why fight when you think you might love them to old habits die hard or they never do keep lying till they all catch up to you the should keep them around you should keep the morale down don't throw him in the dark don't throw him in the door don't throw them in the dark don't throw them in the door
Phil 1:08:20
I was hoping you'd play
Jeff Pianki 1:08:22
Thank you. Oh, it's fun to revisit those old ones
Phil 1:08:28
I bet yeah. Are you are you finding like a with your tour coming up? Are you planning on playing like this the straight new album through or you might want to throw in some old stuff
Jeff Pianki 1:08:38
I'll probably do a mix. This is actually kind of been a interesting new conundrum because I've never made setlist in the past I always kind of just played whatever I felt like playing but I think that I'm going to need to make a setlist for this just because there's a lot of stuff that I'm probably gonna forget if I don't, I'll probably do a mix.
Ben 1:09:01
Yeah. Jeff, is there something we haven't asked you? I think we're I think we're we've asked all of our questions. You've been gracious with the planet some some songs. Is there something that you'd want to say? Or you feel like you know, didn't get asked that you'd want to talk about?
Jeff Pianki 1:09:19
God, you guys have been great. You've been awesome. I guess I'm trying to learn how to be a real musician in the world. And I should say that tickets for the shows in the Midwest are on sale now at audio tree presents.com I don't know if that's okay, that I'm plugging this split away, baby. Okay, sweet. I'm currently working on some new music. I've also got a band called band wave one word. So look out for band wave. I'm really excited about this band. It's been one of the most stimulating projects that I've worked on in a really long time. So I'm super excited about that. But you guys have been great. Thank you so much for having me on.
Ben 1:10:07
Yeah. Thanks so much for talking to us.
Phil 1:10:10
Yeah, this has been this was great. It's been great to meet you finally, and talk and learn a little bit more about your past and present and future. And it sounds like you're gonna have to come back on with your your band for bandwidth. And whenever, whenever that music comes out, so
Jeff Pianki 1:10:24
I would love that. Awesome. Thanks so much, guys. All right, thank you
Phil 1:10:44
all right. And that was our conversation with Jeff banky. About remember it now and his creative journey. Yeah, I just really appreciated the chance to sit down with Jeff. He's somebody that I've always kind of admired his work for a number of years and yeah, he's a really interesting well spoken, introspective guy.
Ben 1:11:05
Yeah. And also, Phil, I gotta say, we gotta we gotta keep booking musicians because the like, personal concert aspect of these unbeatable, unbeatable, truly unbeatable. Yeah, I
Phil 1:11:17
was like, you know, I had my later going back and forth.
Ben 1:11:22
Yeah, I was. I was crying. I had to turn off the Zoom videos that Jeff couldn't see that I was weeping openly.
Phil 1:11:30
It was a lot. It was a lot. It was great. It was really good. Jeff actually just like, bounced right. Right after he was like, I don't know what's happening. He
Ben 1:11:37
was like, I don't know what that guy is sobbing, I can hear him even though the video is off. So I guess I am just gonna go.
Phil 1:11:48
Yeah, I mean, he, it's interesting, I think, especially talking him down, having just talked to heat maps, because it's, it's very rare that I think you get to hear like, such candid responses about working with somebody, you know, it'd be like, essentially, like, if somebody took interviewed both of us separately about like, what is it like to work with, you know, each other?
Ben 1:12:13
Totally. And, but but also, I mean, it's like, I, you know, my impression and I, boy, I don't want to speak at a turn here is that in some some way? Like, it sounds as though you know, Steven, I think if you listen to his interview, and then you listen to Jeff's interview, like really helps kind of coax Jeff, like back in some ways. I don't know if that's too, putting it too heavily. But I think like, in some ways, like really helped him kind of come come back to making music and feeling comfortable making music. And so it's like, I don't know, it's like a really like, beautiful conversation. And it sounds like a really great relationship of like, coming back to music together. And I just boy, really like that.
Phil 1:12:55
Yeah, there. That's something I guess I haven't thought too heavily about, but now that you mentioned it. Yeah. Like, it isn't something that we talked about in the conversation. But the implication is like this, this communal aspect of creation. I think Jeff gets into it when he talks about like his songwriting group and like, the camaraderie that he had with Steve. Yeah, that's like, it was a really beautiful kind of moment. And it was something that like, I remember when we were talking about heat maps, I was telling that off air, it's like, I really want to keep all the stuff that he says about Jeff, because I could imagine it'd be really great to, to hear somebody talk about like me, and that way, right, my friend,
Ben 1:13:38
and especially because I think like they're both they both to me vibe is like kind of humble people. So it's like when you hear I mean, the you heard from both sides. Now, this conversation around like Jeff putting guitars in weird tunings. And so when you hear it from Stevens perspective, he's like, Yeah, Jeff always has these elaborate tunings that I could like, never touch, and I don't know how to do. And then you hear it from Jeff and Jeff is like, I had it in this crazy tuning and Steven picked it up and was able to write a song like right on the spot. I hate that dude. And it's like, they're both like very, I think humble in the way that they kind of tell their their stories about their own kind of skills in a way that's it's very wholesome.
Phil 1:14:17
Ya know, for sure, I love that. And I thought this conversation was great. So I hope that you all enjoyed it. And I think that you should definitely check out Jeff's music. He's incredibly talented and the new album is really really good. You can find him on Twitter at Jeff Pinky. And remember it now as well as other albums like pay per window are available, you know, on Spotify Bandcamp Maybe Apple Music I'm not I'm not sure about that. But you know, they should be available in most places. You can find this podcast on Twitter at origin story underscore you You can find me at 3d Cisco. And where can they find you, Ben,
Ben 1:15:04
they can find me at sad underscore radio underscore lab. You can also find our website at origin story dot show. Thanks as always, to Ryan Hopper for providing the great music that we have on our show. And to melody Hirsch for the cover art.
Phil 1:15:22
Yeah. And, you know, now that we have gotten some questions in, we wanted to start thinking about what the next big question is that you all can consent in and we're thinking, what is it that right now or you know, has always been the case, the comfort media of your choice? What's something that you continually go back to, when you dislike want to zone out or want to feel a certain way? We'd love to hear, hear some emails about that and read those off on the show.
Ben 1:15:54
kind of piggybacking on Dylan asked, I think a similar question to two episodes back if I'm remembering correctly. Yeah, but just thinking about like, what's, uh, yeah, what is your comfort media, whether it's music, whether it's a book, whether it's a game, that you come back to time and time again? And another question, should they make ratatouille too, but instead of running a restaurant, the rats try to take over the government. And it's like a cool thing. Pixar, where yet? I'm pitching right now.
Phil 1:16:31
But Ben rats already around the government.
Ben 1:16:35
Oh, no.
Phil 1:16:36
That explains so much a podcast for another day, our investigative
Ben 1:16:41
podcast into how long ratatouille and his friends had been running
Phil 1:16:46
the legislature. Is the rat even named ratatouille?
Ben 1:16:51
I think he is Am I wrong?
Phil 1:16:54
I don't know maybe.
Well, we will find out ahead of the next episode. What the rats name is and we'll have a we'll have a debrief. But yeah, you can look us. You can look out for another episode from us every Thursday at 5am. Pacific time. 8am. Eastern. Catch you next time. Peace
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
